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has oats that can help lower cholesterol? and it tastes good? sure does! wow. it's the honey, it makes it taste so... well, would you look at the time... what's the rush? be happy. be healthy. this morning my question. does the selection of a new pope present a chance for institutional change? plus, another installment of this week in voter suppression. how to walk the fine line when protecting our streets. but first, the rape case igniting a national conversation and turning one small town upside down. good morning. i'm joy reid filling in for melissa harris-perry.

a note of caution for parents watching this morning. we're getting started with a very sensitive story, so you may want to send children out of the room. this week two high school football stars from steubenville, ohio, went on trial after being accused of raping a 16-year-old girl from just across the ohio river, in nearby west virginia. now a crime and justice story in a small town like steubenville isn't usually the makings of national news and the alleged events on the night in question are sadly not remarkable for their rarity. we know that one in six american women is a survivor of an attempted or completed sexual assault. and we know 44% of survivors are under the age of 18. but thanks to an unusual aspect of this case, we all know now in graphic detail some of what happened in steubenville on august 11th, 2012. the defendants and witnesses to

the alleged crime documented their actions on social media. although the trial just began on wednesday, this case has already been tried in the court of public opinion with posts to twitter, youtube and instagram standing in evidence. there's also the supremesy of football in a struggling town where the high school team is in the spotlight. and then there's the question of consent. whether an incapacitated girl still maintains the capacity to be a willing participant in a sex act. the case was amplified by a crime blogger who collected and posted the tweets and then instagram photos of the defendants holding the accuser on the night of the alleged assault. a december "new york times" article caught the case of

attention hacker collection ano, ma'am -- >> she's deader than a door nail. >> now that student wasn't at the party and later apologized. according to police accounts, after the a night of heavy drinking the accuser woke up with no recollection of what happened to her the night before. she found the next day the same way as the rest of us by reading about it on twitter. on the morning of august 14th her parents took a flash drive loaded with the tweets, the instagram photo and a youtube video to police. a week later 17-year-old trent mays, a star quarterback on the steubenville high school football team and the standout receiver, 16-year-old ma'lik richmond were arrested and

charged with rape and kidnapping. the kidnapping charges were later dropped. and in an ok pretrial hearing, one witness testified he video taped mays assaulting the alleged victim in the backseat of a car while on route between partparties. but the witness says he deleted it from his phone. another testified to seeing richmond assault her in a basement while she was naked and unmoving on the floor. and this, the condition of the accuser, was the main question before the judge in the jefferson juvenile court this week. under an ohio law, if the victim is substantially impaired. attorneys for the defense plan to argue implied consent on the grounds that the accuser willingly drank and accompanied the boys and because she didn't affirmatively say no. the judge will have to weigh that against the prosecution's argument outlined in opening statements that an unconscious

girl is incapable of affirmatively consenting to anything. with me at the table are sarlena maxwell, michael skolnick, the co-president of global grind.com. don mcphearson, and erin carmone, a journalist and commentator and staff writer. first, i want to go to ft. lauderdale, florida, where we're joined by a prosecutor, the supervisor of the sex crimes and child abuse unit of florida's state attorneys office. stacy, thanks thanks so much for being here. >> it's my pleasure. thanks for having me. >> now we learned the accuser will potentially testify in the case. maybe as early as tomorrow. first of all, how difficult is it as a prosecutor to put an accuser on the stand.

walk us through how you prepare an accuser to get on the stand and confront her accuser this way. >> you're 100% right. this is going to be a monumental day. we hear that a lot of rape victims don't want to come forward and all of their sexual history is going to be known. as a sex crimes prosecutor you not only act as the attorney. you act as the psychologist and therapist and the cheerleader in order to get them to come to court. that person has to be mentally prepared to talk to a jury and tell them what happened. in this case it's really difficult because she does not remember what happened. all the events she learned about. she has to take the stand and

tell the jury, and in this case the judge because it's a juvenile case, that she was drinking, what happened and that she doesn't really remember what happened after that. so while it is difficult, it has to be done to show that they have to take a stand. >> and it's made more difficult because part of the issue when somebody is a victim of sexual assault, is a victim of rape, is the humiliation of having to talk about what happened to you. in this case the humiliation is compounded by the fact that there's pictures. there was video. she was already in a sense publicly humiliated. now she has to go through it again. can you tell us how social media has changed the construct of cases like this? >> listen, before we had video and instagram and twitter, they would have to explain to the

jury what happened. if they remember, they had to talk about what took place. in this case, she didn't know what happened. she found out like everybody else. we have to come into court and to have to identify yourself, that is me in the photograph. that is me passed out. that is me not knowing what happened. it is humiliating. but it's something that has to be done. you cannot try these cases without having a victim. so she has to mentally prepare. the attorney has to prepare her. it's one day and it's one day that will hopefully get her justice. so they know when they walk into court what is going to happen. a prosecutor will prepare a person to know. they want to be able to say, you con sended.

you actively participated. you voluntarily drank. they have to be mentally prepared to answer the tough questions. why, when and how. >> and what the defense has to do is pain a picture of a girl who consented. she consented to drinking. they have to go after her character. what is the line to somebody who admits to having had something to drink? what's the legal line for consent? whether or not she consented? >> here's the situation. if someone takes the stand and says, i did not drink. i didn't take any drugs. i don't know how i got in the condition, their credibility is at stake. no one is going to believe that. you have to say i drank alcohol. i did not consent. how could i consent in the incapacitated state?

based on the photographs t tweets, the text messages, it was obvious to everybody that she was not capable of intelligently and voluntarily say i saying i want to participate in the sex act. and that's what you're going to see. >> i want to turn to the panel in studio. we want to talk about the broader implications of the case. this is so packed with implications. not just the nightmare for every parent in college. the nightmare for every girl on her own. these are people that you know. this is taking place on a college campus. you are a survivor of sexual assault. you can put yourself sort of in the place of this young woman. what are the disincentives to come forward? the humiliation. do these cause most women to not

both sner. >> i think so. this is a high level of fear. not being believed. being blamed. implementing a victim blaming strategy. victim blaming 101. so many people kwi why did you do this or that instead the focus should be on the boys. why did they take the impaired girl from party to party? the questions aring on the wrong person in the case. >> enyou've written about rape in the age of social media. what is compounded here, and i'm fix sated on the idea that before she got a chance to come forward. before she made her own affirmative decision to tell her story, her story was already out there. it was basically being used as a joke. these guys thought it was funny to put these pictures out. does it encourage the behavior from these guys? >> it tells you about the mind

set that these people have. they thought they could take a picture of it as a spectacle as opposed to something they wanted to intervene in. on one hand there's retraumatizing the victim. there have been several cases, including the 11-year-old gang raped in texas. she broke a restraining order by tweeting. she found out about her assault as well from a video and from images. a lot of these blackout situations unfortunately learn the details, but the flip side is as much as that is an incredible violation in the creation of nonconsensual pornography, you might call it, from this violation, at the same time, they function as evidence. so feminists have been talking for years about rape culture. it's the idea of people don't believe it exist. here is evidence in a legal sense and in a cultural sense.

>> and i definitely want to talk more about that. we're going to let you weigh in on this as well. when we come back, there's so much more to talk about. when we come back, we'll talk about how talking about a story in the process of that she became a story. stay fabulous foundation. it's a primer, concealer and foundation in one for all day flawless skin. new outlast stay fabulous from easy, breezy, beautiful covergirl.

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next week one of my guests appeared to debate the idea of arming women with guns as the solution to preventing rape. here's a little bit of how that went. >> i don't think we should be telling women anything. we should tell men not to rape women. >> criminals are not going to listen to that. i agree with you. >> we're talking about if there's some faceless, nameless criminal. a lot of times it's someone that you know and trust. >> well, i'm saying that women need to know the situation arise. evil exists in the world.

>> that was sean hannity, totally missing the point. and for her troubles, she was charged with racially charged rape and death threats on twitter. many so explicit we can't show them to you on television, in an attempt to say fewer women would be raped by men if fewer men raped women. we would like to give her the chance to expound upon her point on interrupted today. so i want to give you a chance to try to make the point that you were attempting to make on fox news. you can do that now. >> essentially my point was the premise of the segment is give every woman a gun, that's rape prevention. i'm saying, that doesn't seem like a good idea. 80% of women are raped by someone that they know. you're not going to be on a date with a gun out on the table just in case you wanted to do something, i'm ready for you. that's not how social interactions happen. may point is maybe we should look at who is committing the rapes and why and what condition

they had throughout their lives and maybe we can start by preventing the situation at all from happening so you don't need the gun. >> so you talk ab socializing. you went in and you wrote about five points that we could promote. teach young men to see humanity. teach young men to express healthy masculinitmasculinity. and teach males about bystander intervention. i cited on the workshop. it was a bystander intervention workshop. one thing i left with is this needs to be a part of basic sex education. it's not that men don't know rape is wrong.

a lot of them don't know how to identify what rape is. many of the bystanders saw something happening and didn't understand what they were seeing was rape. maybe they would have been more willing to intervene. that's where the bystander intervention comes in. if you know what you're seeing is rape, then maybe you're going to say maybe we should get this girl a cab. we should get her away from the guys. even if you don't know her. it's a responsibility of people to intervene. to make sure something bad is not going to happen. >> to protect a friend. that was an aspect of the case, dawn, that the young woman was texting to her friends. if that was happening to me, why didn't you do something about it? you played football. you understand sort of the culture around they're not being taught to respect women's humanity. anything you do in this group that are athletic and the stars in the campus, anything you do is okay. >> i think it goes far beyond the culture of athletics and in

this case of a football team. it's the culture of masculinity. it's the culture of men. we are raised in a culture that says women and girls are less than. it's the whole charge between guys, you run like a girl. you throw like a girl. it seems like an innocent statement at two ages. one, it creates a sense of masculinity, a very narrow understanding of masculinity. a broader sense of what it means to be a man. it says women and girls are less than. whether it's in the culture of sports or a lot of other cultures. just coming in here. # i think whether it's sports or any other kind of environment where men gather. in this case, these are boys. these are high school boys. these aren't men.

>> college. >> no. high school. these learned from a culture around them. and we have a very voyeuristic way in which we experience early lessons of sexuality. they're taking in all of this that is very humiliating. when you look at how boys experience their first understanding of intimacy, sexual behavior and sexual interaction, it is not loving and caring and nurturing. it's not the lessons of human y humanity. that's the question we should be asking. where is the humanity of the boys who say there's another human being. when is my responsibility as a human being to look after my fellow human being? >> right. and michael, you talk a lot about the culture that surrounds particularly young black boys as they're coming up and being the universal suspect and having to carry that burden, even as young as in high school. you also have athletic boys that are given permissioned to something criminal. it took other boys to tell them,

man, you're a felon. that was only one. a lot of other people shared the images and thought they were humorous. >> sure. when i was in high school i was not as good as don was. i tried my best as far as i could. i saw a lot of this culture in the locker room. for me, what is deeply troubling is the focus again is how do women avoid rape? and the conversation should be how do men not rape? we have the conversation with the girls about what you should wear. how you should walk home. we never have the conversation with our boys about how not to treat woman with disrespect. how not to take advantage of a girl who might be intoxicated. how not to do things that we should not be doing as young men. and that conversation should be the focus as we move forward. so rape is not one in five. but zero in five. that point of we tell women

whatnot to do is why they get blamed. haven't we told you all these things? it's your fault you didn't do these things. you didn't carry the gun to a party. it was your fault that this happened. >> i'm going to let you make those points after the break. some of the nation's most elite universitiesful are they participating in the coverups of sexual assault on campus? and may have surface pores where bacteria can multiply. polident kills 99.99% of odor causing bacteria and helps dissolve stains. that's why i recommend polident. [ male announcer ] cleaner, fresher, brighter every day.

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thanks. that's the cold truth! but with kids growing up fast, fighting seven signs of aging gets harder. introducing total effects moisturizer plus serum. for the ninety-two practices, two proms, and one driving test yet to come. she'll need our most concentrated total effects ever. sexual violence survivors are finding themselves victimized a second time when they report the assault to school administration. that's what happened at the university of north carolina chapel hill according three students, alumni and former dean who have filed a complaint with the office of civil rights on behalf of themselves and 64 other assault survivor. failure to adequately respond

and investigate the claims and hearing committees poorly trained to handle the cases. joining us is andrea and annie, a former student at chapel hill. both are survivors of sexual assault and are two of the women bringing st complaint against the university. i really appreciate you guys going forward. a lot of women are coming forward and being a part of what they're doing. what do you hope to accomplish with your complaint? >>. >> on a very basic level we hope to hold them accountable. but since coming forward, as you know, this is much bigger than a singular issue campaign. we start to notice trends and patterns that have happened, you know, nationwide. if you look at yale, you start to notice the same things.

so it's not only procedural change and holding administrators accountable but having larger conversation about sexual assault. certainly how we treat each other in the country. and so it's a much larger issue. you want to chime in on that. >> i think it's also definitely creating a forum for survivors to come forward. so often times we're told that our story is one of a kind. it's our fault that we could have prevented it. we hope that not only with our complaint but by coming forward and sharing the stories that we let others know they're not alone. and it's tham tire to come forward as well. >> can you walk us through what the response was specifically from the university when you came forward with your complaint? when you officially came forward, how did they respond to you? >> i was sexually assaulted march of 2012. it's been a year as of last week. right after my assault i had a difficult time adjusting academically and finding support. i used annie's blind report

system that allowed me to report it anonymously. i noticed that our policies were not very survivor friendly. they were also not very clear on what the procedures were for really coming forward and finding support. i was hearing dozens of stories a week. i realded that my story was one of many. so i was telling all the administrators my concerns and really wasn't being met with any sort of answers. it was we'll get to it. never we'll do something about it. annie is a good friend of mine and when she reported her assault, she dealt tw the same issues in 2007. and we realize these many years later things were not really changing. and so we decided about it. and initially we were going to write an article. i was doing research online. i was writing an article with annie. when we found out we could file a complaint, talking to students at amherst and yale, we told the

university we were going to do something about it. it was very much, well, you're not really going to do anything. >> they very much said, don't do it. we can handle it internally. are you sure you want to go public with this? and after years of fighting the same battle and seeing andrea go what i went through and some has changed and some has gotten better, but the main issues are still the same. we had to do something legally. >> the university issued a statement saying we will respond appropriately to the office of civil rights question question for information and cooperate fully with the investigation. a former dean of students is joining you in the complaint. what was her experience, and why did she join the complaint with you? >> i think she'll have to speak to that. i won't speak on her behalf. but she's been amazing, and one of the few people at the

university of north carolina at chapel hill who has supported survivors and fought tirelessly for them. after i had a report in 2007 and now met with the infamous football quote, i went to her. i was like, this has got to change. she helped me rewrite and recreate our policy. >> i want to thank you. we have a lot more from the panel and i will let them get right to it after we come back. a carfirmation. hey, this is challenger. i'll be waiting for you in stall 5. it confirms your reservation and the location your car is in, the moment you land. it's just another way you'll be traveling at the speed of hertz.

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80 calorie chocolate cereal. we asked total strangers to watch it for us. thank you so much. i appreciate it. i'll be right back. they didn't take a dime. how much in fees does your bank take to watch your money? if your bank takes more money than a stranger, you need an ally. ally bank. your money needs an ally. we're back talking about the high school sexual assault trial now under way in steubenville, ohio. inevitably what happens in a case where you have a football program so deer to the community. football was one and god second. there are towns when this is important. but a certain percentage close ranks around the boys and the

girl ends up isolated. so is the risk here that you're going to wind up having families closing ranks around the vulnerability. if they're convicted they would be locked up until they're 21. the closing ranks aspect of the case. i will start with you, karen. >> i would say certainly in a depressed community. a lot of hope is being put into the football program. i would also say a lot of the media coverage that should know better does worry so much about the boys' dreams. with saw it in the coverage of the texas gang rape. i found it very victim blaming. in this case we have a lot of evidence. i think it is absolutely true that constitutionally people close ranks, but i also think in our broader culture we have anything but thinking about the victim. we have, what about those poor boys. >> and isn't this getting back

to what we're talking about. it's like the mike tyson rape case. she went to that party. she was drinking. she had to have something to do with it, right. and trent and ma'lik were making choices also. the end of the football career is not as important as the tragedy and the trauma that the victim will have to overcome. that will be the focus. we need to talk about the choices that the boys kale. and put her in the situation to one of the coaches quoted in the medi media. >> you're seeing it with fights on youtube. the whole culture of abusing someone and turning it into entertainment. >> and this story was being swept under the rug. without them, this story would

not be talked about at all. it's a sad statement that we would put any football program before the humanity of a child. oaf a young woman. the future of two men who potentially raped a young girl as saving them and looking at the young girl the one who asked for it or was too drunk. as a country we should be surrounding this girl with warmth and love. >> we talk about assault. we never want to address it. isn't that part of the reason that boys don't understand the five points. rape is not on the menu of things they're thinking about. they're thinking about fun and partying and sex. but they are not being trained to think about the notion of rape. >> not at all.

boys are not being socialized to being human. it's a very narrow understanding and definition. you started off saying parents, this may be too sensitive for your children. the problem is, the children are being exposed to the humiliating behavior on a regular basis through media they consume in the absent of parents. then we say this is a women's issues. not men's responsibilities for us to talk to our sons about what it means not to do these things. but how to love each other. how to really truly care for each other in a society where we're accountable to each other. that's not happening to our boys. they have taking in a culture of humiliation. this is what it means to be a man. i think it's across the board how we talk to each other.

and your issue is my issue. >> right. and we're already sending these boys in high school, then we're sending them off unsupervised to college. and once these children get to college, and we justed a two women on from the university of chapel hill. in college, 19% report sexual assault. that's one in five. 42% tell no one about the assault. we're looking at a 2008 survey that found one in six reported nonconsensual vaginal penetration. boys already by high school being taught i can do whatever i want. these girls are just objects or accessories to me then we're sending off girls off to college with the same boys. there's so much more to get to

on this issue. up next, my letter of the week. reince priebus, please allow nerd land to be the next stop on your listening tour. ♪

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and while minority voters made up 28% of the votes in 2012, 30% of those going to this the polls will be nonwhite. given that, you would think priebus would take the time to listen to a tough question or two from those of us in the media who got a chance to hear from us before he went behind closed doors. that's why my letter is to rnc chair reince priebus. dear reince. can i call you reince? it's me, joy. it was really instructive. specifically new york state gop chair ed cox who appeared alongside you instructed us about your party, reminding it was it was president lincoln. all true. but cox said that in answer to a

question about what the gop has to offer black voters today. and 1865 and 1964 were a long time ago. neither could come up with an example of the republican party's proud racial history more recent than the 1970s when president richard nixon enacted school desegregation. and even he did that kicking and screaming. he displayed masterful insight rngs acknowledging that his 47% remarks did not help the party last november. but you selected the 1%er. and in answer to my question about how your party would deal with a more recent history. the billboards designed to make mar minority voters feel like they were being followed by the police. the right-wing media who disparaged african-americans as

lady welfare cheats, but members of your party are too afraid to stand up to. you know, recent republican history. what you said on monday is to win over minority voters, quote, you have to show up. in fact, you said that a lot. reince, you came to brooklyn because last this november minority voters showed up. you galvanized african-americans to turn out in higher numbers than 2008. chatting with a group of african-americans who are already republicans won't do much to change that. and neither will reminding us what your party did for us in 1865 or 1994 or in the '70s. if even if you showed up and stayed at church. sincerely, joy. yeah. ♪

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just when you thought it was safe to go back to the voting booth, new huh, think again. we in nerd land bring you another installment of -- this week in voter suppression. and this week in voter suppression new shenanigans include voting in florida. then there's the arkansas photo i.d. requirement which the stay house passed on wednesday. and this monday the supreme court will hear its second voting rights case of the year. arizona versus the intertribal council of arizona. this case tests if arizona can test the own rights. nooe na is the vice president of litigation at the mexican-american legal defense and education fund, which served as lead counsel in the original arizona case, and also social commentator and my pal nancy

giles. and russell simmons' political adviser michael skolmik. can you walk us through a little bit about the arizona case that we're going to see before the supreme court on monday. >> yes. thank you. the arizona case is about a very simple conflict between a state law and a federal law enacted i congress. congress saw people were not registered to vote. it was largely because of a very confusing patch work of state laws. lots of barriers of lots of types to voter rej trags. and congress decided to safeguard the integrity of elections to making sure whatever states did they had to do additional streamlined registration procedures. and part of that was a wonderful mechanism called the federal

voter registration postcard. no matter where you live anywhere in the united states you can go and get one of these postcards, fill it out, send it in and be registered to vote for federal elections. >> this has a tremendous, wonderful impact in increasing voter registration in the united states. and in arizona there's a h law that says we won't take your postcard unless you add additional things. >> they want you to bring in a birth certificate. they're putting their own layer on top of it. >> that's exactly right. and the reason is allegedly pruf of citizenship. and what arizona is doing is grafting its own requirements on top of the voter ren strags form. and over 30,000 people were

rejected for voter registration in arizona. >> if the supreme court were to rule in favor of arizona, wouldn't that open the flood gates of states saying we'll have our own requirements. pretty much anything that a state would want to do. >> states could say. well, in addition we want a note from your doctor to say you're mentally competent. oe we want a letter from the court saying you don't have a felon conviction. or we want proof that you live where you live. there is no end to the type of work they can layer on if they decide that congress has to yield to this the states and what should happen an why we're confident of winning the states is because the constitution says state laws must yield. >> and nancy, we sort of laugh about all of the things that we

come up with. >> what about the number of jelly beans in a jar. i'm so happy that you said that you reminded people of how the constitution functions, which is the feds outdo the states. but it almost reminds me of a different bratty child who keeps going to the different parent and saying can't i? can't i? and all of these voting obstacles have literally given me palpitations. i cannot breathe at the thought of thinking about what could happen. at one point before the election in november i remember tweeting charles lowe and saying if they're successful in blocking people who don't have i.d.s, let's call beyonce and jay-z and pay for the i.d.s and birth certificates and get the stuff. it's frustrating. >> that's a good point. you're also a democratic

strategist, right? >> yes. so a lot of this is trying to reduce their presence at the polls. so okay, if this is happening, should people bechanging their focus to getting i.d.s. >> you saw in 2012 that black people went out in mass. when they come after our rights we have to go line up and early vote. we need to bus people to the polls. when our rights are infringed, we go out harder to exercise the rights. and the problem is they are not putting forth policy that encourages people to vote for them. they're just trying to strip away our rights. >> is the worry that people are proactive because -- take barack obama off the equation. will there still be motivation? >> i think there will be

motivation. i think he laid the ground work but all of this nonsense is just to muddy the waters so folks are confuseded. i need letter from a doctor. my girlfriend needs to come with me. just to confuse people who don't have access to information. out of all of this, in the local elections we go to the poll. that's when the state houses are figured out. >> that was in 2010. dean, i want to give you the last word. is it your expectation that the supreme court will uphold or overturn the arizona law? >> it is our expectation that it will overturn the law or say the law must yield where there is a federal mandate to accept the postcard. the ninth circuit court of appeals agreed with us. and most importantly, we don't think the supreme court is going to buy this election fraud fiction. arizona says it needs to safeguard the integrity of its

elections. congress has the right to safeguard the integrity of the elections. i want to thank you very much. michael and nancy are sticking around. and is the new pope really a chance for change? plus, when police are accused of hurting the community they're supposed to protect. more nerd land at the top of the hour. kate and i have been married for 15 years. that's 3 moves, 5 jobs, 2 newborns. it's no wonder i'm getting gray. but kate -- still looks like...kate. with nice'n easy, all they see is you -- in one simple step, nice'n easy with colorblend technology, gives expert highlights and lowlights. for color that's perfectly true to you. i don't know all her secrets, but i do know kate's more beautiful now, than the day i married her. with the expert highlights and lowlights of nice 'n easy, all they see is you. constipated? yeah.

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[ robert ] we created legalzoom to help people start their business and launch their dreams. go to legalzoom.com today and make your business dream a reality. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side. they're about 10 times softer and may have surface pores where bacteria can multiply. polident kills 99.99% of odor causing bacteria and helps dissolve stains. that's why i recommend polident. [ male announcer ] cleaner, fresher, brighter every day. welcome back. i'm joy reid in for melissa harris-perry. a leader for the world's 1.2 billion catholics was chose in a confidential vote witnessed by none but the 77 men who decided who among them would be the vigor of god. we only knew the outcome when we saw the white smoke billowing from the chimney place atop the

chapel after 2:00 p.m. eastern time on wednesday. after only a two day conclave and just in time for easter, a new pope had been chosen. soon after we knew his name or names. now pope francis. a 76-year-old from argentina, and the o crowd went wild. pope francis is historic. like more than 40 pk of the world's catholics, he's from latin america, specifically argentina, making him the first in a millennium not to be born in europe. but despite that no other known entity, especially one this large chooses its leaders like this, the decision of who will be pope is intensely political. pope john paul ii, elected in 1978, continuously took his message on the road. and he took his political positions to the biggest issues of the day. he spoke out against the arms race and the iraq war ten years

ago. he advocated for many forms of social justice while opposing abortion, birth control and various other conservative positions. after john paul's death in 2005, his successor was more preoccupied with his own louse. most noticeably the child abuse scandal plaguing the church. that brings us to pope francis. being the first pope from latin america, his very selection symbolizes change. it remains to be seen if he will follow the model of pope benedict or if he will chart his own path. james martin is a jesuit priest and author of "the jesuit guide to everything." michael pepper, a professor. and host of interfaith voices on public radio. i want to start with the

question of what kind of pope we expect francis to be. will it be more the political pope like john paul or a house cleaner? >> well, my sense is he will be a pope of the poor. the most important decision a pope makes is his name, by choosing francis, he said how i would like a church of the poor and for the poor. >> and that's been one of the things the church is criticized for being first and foremost about caring for the poor. >> absolutely. i think one of the aspects of him coming from the global south will be his connection to vast income and equality and understanding that at a very deep level and his quotes this morning, quoteg from the life of st. francis, alluding to the life of st. francis talked about care and guarding for creation.

so i think he's very close to those issues. >> and there's the issue of how the church relates to women. what about the role of women? do you expect any change? is there any history that you may know about that suggests he may be more open to expanding the roles. >> well, i scoured the sources. i don't expect them to ordain women to the priesthood next week. i do expect there may be incremental change because he's already said some things that have just blown me away. like a church of the poor and for the poor. whoa, that sounds suspiciously like the gospel. that was just fantastic. i also hope he's a pope for the

environment. there is one change he could make fairly easily. i don't think he has a record on this. he could change the requirement of clerical celibacy. he might decide that it's okay for priests to marry. that's not a doctrinal issue. that's an issue of practice. he could change that easily. >> you jumped a whole segment ahead. we have that coming up. we want to get back for a moment to the idea of what he might change. nancy, people who look from at the church from the outside looki looking in, they look at the church and see a ridged institution about what the former cardinal did was. don't take that birth control. always policing the faithful and not speaking to goebl issues like poverty. john paul was a hero to me because he seemed to look outward at bigger global issues. i was never catholic. it was fun to be in the green

room with these guys and hear the excited chatter about what did you hear what he said? it's really great. as a non-catholic, i'm really happy to hear. the conversations on poverty in this country we don't talk about enough. to have a pope make that a big issue is huge. there's two things i have a question about. . i'm never sure about this. what does being a jesuit mean? and also why do you think this pope is 76 and maybe not 66? what's with that? >> it just so happens we have a jesuit at the table. let's go to him. tell us, what is it in the jesuit tradition that makes it different? >> well, we're catholics. we're catholic religious order. we take vows of poverty, chastity and obedience. we're known for our educational constitutions, george town and places like that. because the pope did fot come up

through the diocese model, he's a little bit of an outsider. he also part of the jesuit world view is social justice and working really closely with the poor. this pope when he was archbishop was really affiliated with the poor. you see pictures of him cleaning the feet of the poor. hooefrs bringing a fresh look, a new spirituality and a real love for the poor. all the popes love the poor, but it's a certain emphasis on it that i think the jesuits may bring. >> he already seems more accessible. >> he's not only accessible, he seems to have rejected a lot of the pomp and circumstance. >> the prada slippers. >> the red shoes will go, i suspect. when he came out on the balcony, all he had on was the white. he didn't have anything fancy. he rejected that. he took the bus the first day to go back to where he stayed. # i think it bodes well.

every nun that i know in the united states will hear this emphasis on the poor. he might get on the bus with my friends sister simone campbell. he may do that. yng he would be a fan of the ryan budget either. >> i have a funny feeling he won. the catholic church has so many beautiful pieces oaf art. it's so vast and grand. but it is sort of distant from jesus and the the teaching of the gospel was about. it was not rejecting women but bringing them in. how did the church go from the jesus tradition to the grand tradition? >> wow, you're asking a historian a big question. >> answer it in 30 seconds. >> one thing i would say about the new pope francis is the way he sought out the poor and sought out those on the margins

and not just waiting for them to come to him. the the photo going around of him washing the feet of aids patients reminds us so much of the gospel of john. of the commandment to wash feet. kissing the feet in one of the photos, which goes beyond the commandments and shows his love for the poor. in terms of how the church became rich, that is a long story. but you're absolutely right. that in the first few hundred years of christian history this was a church mostly meeting in homes. mostly meeting with not very organized organizational structures. and it was only after the fourth century that all this money started flowing in. and at the time, they were con futzed about what to do then. well, how can you be a good christian and rich? that was a new question they had to deal with. medieval europe is the result of the answer to that question. yet there are still ways to

channel charity into the church so it would go out for the poor. >> we haven't talked about it, but it is the elephant in the room. the question of how -- you said he's an outsider, francis. what does that mean for his dealing with the sex scandals that have rocked the church throughout the world. i don't think any cardinals in the room don't know this is the number one issue facing the church. they needed to find someone who had the respect and the toughness to do this. when he was a jesuit he was very tough and he was not afraid to ruffle feathers. and so i think this is a guy who can make hard decisions and who also as an archbishop and bishop knows, you know, what the sex abuse crisis is all about in the parishes and in the diocese. i cannot imagine he's not going to address this. >> right. and sister, we are going to talk more about the other thing that

he could theoretically change. and we'll talk more about why. when we come back, what the pink smoke at the vatican was about and the case for ending celibacy rules for priests. [ snoring ] ♪ [ snoring ] [ male announcer ] zzzquil™ sleep-aid. [ snoring ] [ snoring ] [ male announcer ] it's not for colds. it's not for pain. it's just for sleep. [ snoring ] [ male announcer ] because sleep is a beautiful thing™. [ birds chirping ] zzzquil™. the non-habit forming sleep-aid from the makers of nyquil®. ♪ but i'm still stubbed up. [ male announcer ] truth is, nyquil doesn't unstuff your nose. what? [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus liquid gels

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before cardinal jorg jorge bergoglio became pope francis, we saw pink smoke over the vatican. protesters in rome organized by the women's ord nation conference set off the smoke to call for a greater role for women in the catholic church.

including ord nation in the priesthood. ord nation that would put women in con sengs for the job pope francis got the next day. and i know you're happy about that. as we discuss how a new pope presents an opportunity for change. we ask what the new pope will mean for the centuries long policies for celibacy for priests and nuns. father used to be a roman catholic who left the church in order to marry and is now an episcopal priest. he's also the author of "dilemma." father, thank you for being here. >> thank you so much. i'm so happy to be able to join you this morning. >> you left the church after a relationship you had with a woman who is now your wife was disclosed. so you had clearly broken the vow of celibacy in the church. did it get in the way of your ministry when you were still a

catholic? >> well, i think the values are valuable for religious men in women, pope francis is a jesuit. we have many religious men and women in the e church. in the case of roman catholics who make promises of celibacy to the bishop, i think it should be optional. most people are not familiar with that, but the first 39 popes were married men. and jesus chose among the ap apostles mostly married men. married men are serving in the church and they are now serving as former priests who became catholics. it's not incompatible for a man to be mar are ied and to be a

good parish priest. >> and i do want to bring in michael. that is true, right? you were talking about the church as well. wasn't the idea of priests and popes not being able to marry in part of not being able to pass down the wealth to sons. >> that's one of the issues. at the very beginning there was an apocalyptic ideal meaning the world is about to end. celibacy makes sense. why have a bunch of kids? later it became voluntarily renouncing things. this became keen for the virtue of the church. and this was a paradox to our minds. that they could be freed from the domestic duties in order to seek a life of learning and a prayer. but you're absolutely right.

over time there was difficulty with how to pass on property. and that's an issue that arose in medieval europe that ultimately led to mandatory clerical celibacy. >> i'll throw it to father jim or sister maureen. whau would it change in the church if you decide marry? would it change the functional role of the priest to have him have that option? >> it probably wouldn't. as the father was saying, there are already some married priests in the catholic church, but also former lutheran priests that join. one thing that has gone unremarked on is it would make it a little more difficult for the church to support the families of the priests. in other words, they would need bigger salaries. that's an unforeseen problem that it may have.

>> is that an issue? could adding married priests to the church in a sense make things worse? then you are bringing in issues of potential divorce, relationships that don't work out. children. the church is already struggling with financial settlements because of the sex abuse scandals. could it actually make things worse? >> well, i think the only thing it can make things worse is if you look at the the present behavior of priests and if you're satisfied with that, what's happening. and i'm talking about the women who write me every day who have fathered children of priests. priests that are pnot faithful. for a good number of priests, celibacy is not working out. to try to ignore that as a reality, i mean, we can't ignore it. i think financially people have

to be taught to be responsible with their church. the church congregations are smaller. some congregations struggle financially. they support and sustain the priests quite well because priests are independent people who have to be responsible for their own family and situations. in some cases they have a full time job in the church. the fak is just saying oh, let's keep celibacy. i was going to see. you asked what would the consequence be? that would be a con kwens. i do think it's important to say that you see the priests breaking their vows. and the vast majority of priests are livie ing celibately. even though will are sinful

people, it's important to underline that. even though it may be difficult for them, they are keeping their vows. it's not widespread. sbl what i think would make a difference is a little pink smoke. and the introduction of women to priestly roles in the chunch and more leadership roles in the church. that's a more difficult issue on which to change things. i've been watching the pope for a couple of days. you're not just an archbishop. now you can do what's in your heart of hearts. his art is overflowing in ways that maybe it wasn't in argentina. if he has a heart for people in the church, maybe there's an opening there. >> yes, i was going to say add women. but as a matter of priests

advising families and understanding how a family works and parenting and maybe having a different approach to things like birth control. not saying, hey, let's do it. but that's a very responsible way to bring that into the church. >> i want to give you the lost ward. now that you are in the church that is more lip ral, do you feel your role is made easier by the fact that you are now in a family situation? >> well, i got to tell you, i really do believe that the people in the parish understand the married priests in the way they did not understand the celibate priest. they too have families. they too get up at 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning to change ziper ls. i believe there's a basic connection. and i also see that priests are able to say to people your struggles are my struggles. right now priests are very much

protected in the roman catholic church by the big institution. prooes are more like the rest of us in the episcopal church. >> i appreciate you being here, father cutie in miami. nancy is staying with us. and coming up, how the ongoing chicago gun violence claimed the youngest victim. when news breaks, you have to be prepared, but all i do to be broadcast ready damages my hair and scalp. then i uncovered head & shoulders damage rescue. it relieved my scalp and rescued my damaged hair. the proof? see it tonight, at eleven. head & shoulders damage rescue.

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pope. paul ryan made news with an unveiling of his own. as house budge chairman, he proposed a budget for fiscal year 2014. in theory, lowering taxes and repealing the affordable health care act. it's the same paul ryan budget that paul ryan has been promoting for years. that frustration may have led him to dismiss patty murray's counter. he said if you read the senate bill you will find that the vatican is not the only place blowing smoke this week. also making headlines with a more cordial attitude, president obama continued his charm offensive in hopes of reaching a deal and ending the sequester that is now in the sec week. we'll have to wait and see if the efforts reveal any sults.

it's understandable if you missed this news item. on monday in chicago, as a young father changed the diaper of his 6-month-old baby girl on the seat of a mini van, a gunman opened fire. the young father, jonathan watkins was hit three times as he witnessed a bullet tear through the body of his daughter who later died. watkins was released from the hospital on thursday night, able to go home after being treated for multiple gunshot wounds. able to go home but without his baby girl. instead he went to the police station hoping to help the investigation. as gun violence continues to wreak havoc on our cities and towns, the police response can be key but also controversial. more on this when we come back. if you think most hybrids are a bit under sized then this will be a nice surprise. meet the 5-passenger ford c-max hybrid. c-max come. c-max go. c-max give a ride to everyone it knows. c max has more passenger volume than competitor prius v

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signs that the epidemic of gun violence in chicago was on the decline. feb's homicide rate was half of what it was a year ago and the lowest monthly level since 1957. some have attributed this to renewed focus on public safety and yet concerns remain about the collateral damage done by ramping up policing in any of our nation's cities. just last weekend two undercover new york police officers shot and killed a 16-year-old boy in brooklyn. according to the nypd the officers were forced to shoot because the teen pointed a gun in their direction. but some witnesses say the young man was simply adjusting his belt when the officers opened fire. in response members of the community have gathered in memory and protest of the slain teen each night this week. the conduct in handling demonstrators has also been

called into question. many claim excessive force is being used which speaks to larger concerns about the policing in our urban communities. representing the flat bush section of brooklyn addressed this very issue in a statement about the demonstrator this is week saying, quote, this action that some are calling an up rising spoke to the overwhelming frustration that people are living through day after day. this frustration and its life and death consequences is all too common in our cities and towns across the country. vince warren is joining us now. and right next to him is eric adams, a former new york state police officer and state senator. and with us, nancy giles and michael scolding, the director of hip hop director russell

simmons. thank you all for being here. >> thank you. >> this is a situation that presents the fundamental tension in what we want in urban communities. you guys sitting next to each other is ideal. because on one hand we're so outraged when we see a kat like janila watkins. whether or not it's gang related is tragic. we're outraged when we see an innocent bystander shot to death because a gang member was looking for someone. it was mistaken identity. at the same time the urban communities are saying to the police, get in there and do something about it. but when police go in, the way they respond, the more force that is used, we're not happy with that either. you're saying stop and frisk is not the way to find the balance. >> the most important thing is what any community wants is they want the police to police in a way that gets guns off the street. that targets the criminals.

the problem is the increased police presence that we're seeing in new york as well is they're policing entire communities where everybody in the black or brown community becomes suspect. last how you see these situations. this is the classic narrative. we don't all know what happened. but this goes back to the harlem uprising in 1964 where a young black teenager was shot. a young man was shot for having a wallet. the police narrative is we shot him because had had a gun. the community narrative is he did not have a gun and the police shot him in cold blood. and the outrage and the tension that's happening in the communities now, this is not new. this didn't happen last weekend. this has been flooes a 50-year cycle that we've been in. the point is that police officers need to police guns. they need to police in a way that protects the community and not to police the communities themselves.

>> senator eric, talk about that a little bit. the police officers wrn will say you want us to get rid of the gang problem. you don't want us stopping people who may look too much like a gang member. is it damned if you do and damned if you don't? >> i'm a visual person. violent crime in our communities are the berries. civil rights are the grapes. you can hate the berries and still want grapes. and so a young mother called me, she's a nurse. she said that's terrible what they did to this young man who may not have had a gun. why are innocent brooklynites or new yorkers or americans no longer trusting police? not because of a particular incident. it's what happened leading up to the incident. when you're disrespected throughout the entire time in a particular community, then you're going to start no not only dislike the berries, you're

going to dislike the people there to protect you against the berries. >> i want to read a few statistics. i think it's pretty shocking when you look at the results of ston and frisk and how it impacts people in the communities. looking at the nypd stop and frisk policy. we have a stat about the people being stopped. 88% of those stopped were innocent of any crime, according to statistics. 87% were african-american or latino. we don't have evidence that these people are committing any crimes. >> but instead, 780 guns were taken off the street in 2009 because of stop and frisk. that's 0.19%. we would have a better job if we had random checks. this is a 40-year problem or 50-year problem. this goes back to the war on drugs. we started a war against our own people. it simply did not work.

we decembimated black and brown communities. the police job is to protect and serve. >> i know. i remember when i was growing up in queens. a young man named clifford governor was killed in the '70s. we're both from queens. i didn't know that. represent. but it's very layered. there are all kinds of questions that i always had. you're a former cop. why does it seem the police are trained to shoot to kill and not just disarm, maim, shoot someone in the leg? >> that's not possible. i'm going to explain it to you. >> please. >> no innocent child should be approached by a person with a gun. doesn't matter if they're wearing blue jeans or a blue june form. it's an oxymoron to some to say

black child and innocent in the same sentence. >> and i think about the patrick morris case. you had undercover police in a lot of ways people felt were terrorizing the black community. he said he didn't have any. we don't know what happened but he was shot and killed. so we're worried about, yes, we do want people not shooting randomly. but police don't seem to have developed an approach to young black men in the communities that they don't feel threatened by the cops. >> you're hitting the nail on the head. he was shot for nothing more than being black, standing in front of his building and having a wallet, which the police thought was a gun. this was an undercover group that was randomly stopping and frisking folks. we settled that case.

the unit was disbanded and the police promised they would never do that again. and here we are from 2002 to 2011, 600% increase in stop and frisks. the numbers we're talking about, 685,000 people were stopped in 2011. 500,000 stopped in 20 # 12. 87% black. here's the thing. it's not about the number of stop and frisks. they're not stopping the people. >> the police are not shooting white people. tham one white person who they killed. >> and we were just talking before the show you don't have the police going after emo looking white men trying to stop massacres, even though the profile would suggest that. we're going to have much more on this. the question is the new york city police department in violation of 5 million people's civil rights? [ male announcer ] when it comes to the financial obstacles

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this week the new york city police department passed a unique milestone. the the department has conducted five million stop and frisks under michael bloomberg. this controversial police practice of stopping and searching people who they deem suspicion attracts intense scrutiny because the vast majority of stops have not resulted in my discovery of wrong doing. 88% did not result in arrest. 87% targeted were african-american or latino in a city where young black men make up 5% of the population. on monday they will be made on behalf of hundreds of thousands of new yorkers allegedly

illegally stopped. controversial policy is being considered by police departments in cities around the country. and back to my panel, i want to do a couple other stats here. the source of this is "the new york times" in brownsville. they looked and found that 93% of residents in brownsville had reported being stopped. and then you look at the weapons that are found. weapons are often not found. in 2011 you had african-americans, 1.9% of the african-americans or latinos were stopped found to have a weapon. 3.8% of whites. so basically twice as likely to find weapons on whites who were stopped. >> we have a better chance of finding weapons at a random check point. this stop and frisk nonsense does not work.

the police cannot provide a study, the city can't provide a study that proves it stops crime. it doesn't exist. >> what claim are you making? what remedy are you seeking? >> this lawsuit is seeking to vindicate the people who have been stopped. >> getting the records expunged? >> vindicate them in the sense that they are innocent folk who is have gone through the stop and frisk process. some of them -- very few of them have been arrested. but what happens is this is not an unintrusive thing. people feel violated. these are terrifying stops for folks. and there's no mechanism by which people can speak out and say, i am an innocent person. i can't do down to the corner store for a quarter of milk, or my kid can't go down without me teaching them to survive, stop and frisk. >> just to that point. stand your ground is one step beyond that. if i deem you suspicious, i can

stop and feel you up, or i can shoot you. it's ridiculous. >> and i think it's so important that we don't allow people to describe us as just being bleeding hearted liberals. i am pro public safety. if a i don't think person of any age is in possession of a gun and they're using it to harm our communities they need to be incarcerated. if they are an immediate threat, police should take necessary action to top the threat. those are the berries. we're talking about human beings being being treated as second clekd citizens. you cannot create an environment where people are growing up one way and treated wuchb wau and then treating other children another way. >> but aren't you also creating a difficult situation for police? you're a former nypd officer because they are now essentially being trained to treat every black male as a suspect to think of them that way, to regard them

that way. does it degrade their ability to serve the same community if they think of it as a blanket criminal. >> they are stating this is not right. enough of this. commissioner bradley said we're going too far. all the experts looking at how we're treating a particular community realize this is wrong. this is bad for business. the rodney king riot. billions of dollars lost. the riots in newark, new jersey, millions of dollars lost. all these riots that you see that destroy cities are based on police related interaction. it's a bad business decision. >> if i could quick on the iraq war. i'm pro police. tactics. i'm pro-soldier. going to war in iraq was wrong. these tactics don't work.

we canni be pro-police officer. >> i have heard press conferences the mayor will look at the camera and say stop and frisk is effective. you just showed the stats that show that twice as many white people have guns and they're not even getting stopped. >> and less than 5% of them. essentially you're finding almost no weapons but you're creating this really ugly situation with the community -- >> after searching 87% of us. >> exactly. >> let me break that piece down quickly. the lawsuit is challenging unconstitutional stop and frisks. we want people to stop people with guns and not stop the communities -- >> at large. more of this in a moument. first, it is time for a preview of weekend with alex width. >> thanks for making time. it's the final day of c pac and sarah palin takes the stage. we'll take you there live. a new bill could right a 33-year wrong. 52 american hostages could finally be compensated for the

time they spent there. i talk with michael isikoff in what he uncovered in his ix clue sif on the obama administration's controversial drone policy. and scientists say they found the elusive god particle and why this could land a nobel prize but the not surprise ings the skrin tis scientists don't particularly like the name the god complex. >> and up next, the endearing tale of the daddy, the daughter, and donkey congress. growing up, fighting seven signs of aging gets harder. introducing total effects moisturizer plus serum. for the ninety-two practices, two proms, and one driving test yet to come. she'll need our most concentrated total effects ever. she'll need our most concentrated (music throughout)

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. our foot soldier this week is a dad whose dedication to his daughter could open up a whole new world for little girls. he's mike mica, a video game designer from the bay area in california. as a true gamer dad, mike has been trying to get his two young kids interested in his passion for video games. while his son refused to be torn away from his toy trains, mike's 3-year-old daughter ellis has

been gaming since before she could talk. he would set ellis his lap to watch as he played donkey kong on an old are kade machine. now she plays the games herself enjoying other classics like pac man and super mario brothers ii, but donkey kong is still her favorite. in case you haven't played in a while, in the original mario must ascend the ladders and levels to rescue pauline from a scary gorilla. last week ellis wanted to flip the script. she turned to her father and innocently asked how can i play as the girl? i want to save mario? that's when mike decided to take a stab at hacking the classic game. as he worked through the night tweaking the game, he posted his progress on facebook for his gamer friends to see. unbeknownst to mike, his work was being shared around the world by the internet. he posted a you tube video of the hacked game featuring a new hero, pauline, his game's version of princess toad stool.

he didn't tell ellis about his marathon effort to remake a video game just for her. he just let her play. but this time as pauline. ellis noticed and flashed a big grin. before diving into her favorite game. in mike's behind, that was it. case closed. he likens the experience to a father putting a bicycle together for his kid on christmas eve, but when he went online, his e-mail was overflowing with questions on how he did it and requested for him to do the same for other people's kids. in less than a week, that youtube video has received more than 1.5 million hits. mike says he wasn't trying to make any grand statements about gender equality in gaming. he was just trying to do something nice for his daughter. but his simple act sparked a massive reaction and opened the eyes of the gaming community. so for changing the game for ellis and other little girls, mike is our foot soldier of the week. and that is our show for today. i want to thank vince warren, nancy giles, michael skol nick and state nor eric adams and thanks to you at home for

watching. i'll be back tomorrow morning at 10:00 a.m. eastern when we dive deep in the president's upcoming trip to israel and the ten-year anniversary of the war in iraq. and coming up "weekends with alex width." ♪ i have direct deposit on my visa prepaid. my paycheck is loaded right on my card. automatic. i am not going downtown standing in line to cash it. i know where my money is, because it is in my pocket. i got more time with my daughter, we got places to go. [ freeman ] go open a new world, with visa prepaid. more people go with visa. with visa prepaid. voa playground of innovation, n color, and design. showing up where we least expect it and taking inspiration from our wildest dreams. because bold doesn't see the world in fixtures and faucets, it re-imagines.

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